PHILADELPHIA (CBS) — City Council members had little luck on Wednesday in their effort to gauge progress in the long-running negotiations between the Philadelphia teachers union and the school district.

During public testimony before Council, Philadelphia Federation of Teachers president Jerry Jordan said the fact that teachers have been without a new contract for four years and without a raise for five is preventing talented teachers from coming to Philadelphia. Jordan said negotiations are continuing, and Councilman Allan Domb asked Jordan how close a contract really was.

“Is the delta or difference between where the two sides are greater than $50 million?” Domb asked.

“I can’t answer that because big-ticket items such as benefits and wages are unresolved,” Jordan responded.

Domb asked that after five years whether the two sides had considered mediation. Jordan said the two sides can do it without mediation — they’ve done it before. But, he said…

“One side can’t get all that they want and the other side can’t either,” he said.